You know....

[chaoswolf]

I know you all hate seeing these kinds of posts in my LJ. I really know that you hate watching me rant. This is just in general. I hate college. It bites. It is a waste of time and money, and I'm currently unemployed. I want to learn to drive. I want to get a job. I want to not go to school...I seriously don't feel I'm getting anywhere with it. I think that those are pretty fair requests, don't you?

Jobs = good thing. Money = good thing. Being broke & unable to drive = bad thing. Having parents insisting you go to college dispite you hate it = even worse. Fuck it all!!!!! I dispise college with a passion. I dispise having to deal with perfectionist teachers who fail to appreciate the essays that I turn in. Dispite the fact that they are slightly different from what they wanted, they capture the essence of the characters from the story. I am ready to blow it all to hell, and I can't because my mother's being an anal bitch about it. No offense intended, but I don't believe she understands how I feel. I don't think she cares how I feel. I don't think she wishes me to leave college at all, and I believe she doesn't notice the fact that it's making me more depressed.

Fuck it all. Fuck it all. Fuck it all. Fuck it all.

Comments

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

Uh, hmm.

Seriously, if you were at Reed, I'd suggest a leave of absence for rebalancing your medication. Try talking to your parents rationally about taking a semester or two off, getting a driver's license and a job, and then coming back?

A college education is important. If nothing else, it can open your eyes up to a lot of new careers that you can get training for. However, it might be a good idea to not go to college where you are.

You're at De Anza, right? Mayhaps you should talk to the counselers there about transferring, getting financial aid and going to school... I dunno, I know they had a transfer-to-Berkeley program running when I was in high school. Time outside your household might be good for you on a lot of levels. It certainly was for me.

[chaoswolf]

I'm not sure you're grasping the situation. I hate college. It is useless and dramatic, pointless and expensive. I am learning nothing. I don't think moving and trying to go somewhere else will solve this. I am not learning anything, just feeling humiliated by my slacker tendencies. I have no motivation to improve, and I seriously feel that I am a failiure when it comes to school. I've struggled with it long enough to get my diploma. I feel I'm done.

[jilara.livejournal.com]

Seriously, have you ever considered that you might be more the sort of person who goes to trade school? Become a welder, or a mechanic, or a construction worker. You don't have to work with your brain to make money. The thing between you and college seems to be an incompatibility of your brain and the methods and materials. Consider if an alternative path might better suit you.

Maybe career counciling is in order. But don't just chuck it and end up saying "you want fries with that?" for twenty years.

[chaoswolf]

I have thought about trade school, and my parents are being anal about that too.

[amelia-seyroon.livejournal.com]

Then you need to get your act together. Instead of whining and complaining, do SOMETHING. You want a job, get motivated to FIND A JOB. Get motivated to LEARN HOW TO DRIVE. It took me three years to learn, and after failing twice, I finally passed my test. I didn't think I could do it, but I did, and so can you. I am telling you this as a friend who cares, whether or not you care to listen.


You can leave college if you want to. It's your right. You need to tell your mother how you feel. Don't snap, try to be patient about this.

[chaoswolf]

I've tried, Jessica. You think you can get through to her, go for it. I seem to think she won't listen to me no matter what I do.

[jilara.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if career counciling is available through de Anza, but I'd sure explore it. Maybe that would help the parental units in being more dynamic about it. A lot of people have gotten to some very interesting (even notable) places in life, without going through standard education patterns.

[chaoswolf]

You know what...? I am not sure it'll work. Somehow I am really unsure it'll work. These are my parents we're talking about.

[figmo.livejournal.com]

Sometimes college feels like a waste of time but trust me, it isn't in the long run.

I'm guessing part of why you are feeling like it is a waste is because you don't have an end-goal in sight. Do you have a major selected? Do you know what you want to do with your life?

Part of the frustration, of course, is from dealing with ridiculous teachers. Some folks actually can teach, while others are teachers because they can't do anything else. No matter how good an institution you attend you will come across sucky teachers. That's actually part of The College Experience.

Part of the college experience, m'dear, is getting away from your mother and father. It may be time for you to transfer to an "away" school of your choice. If your grades are good enough you can go to just about anywhere. The trick is to decide where that "anywhere" should be.

You're at an age where you ought to be trying out anything that even remotely interests you to see how you feel about it. Sometimes you'll find you like things, other times you won't. That's a part of learning, whether the "trying out" involves a philosophy or computer science class or whether you try some foods or music that are new to you.

[chaoswolf]

Is too.

Major? What's that? I'm thinking English, but I seriously doubt I can get it since my grades suck rocks. What I want to do with my life: not a fucking clue. Nothing, right now.

Frustration is dealing with assholes. I understand this, and my parents are acting like assholes.

College experience can kiss my tail. I don't think that getting to an "away" school will do me a lick of good, and my GPA stinks.

Anything that looks remotely interesting, eh..? Not happening. Nothing sems to be catching my interests right now.

[gridlore.livejournal.com]

Right, and the working world is a paradise of happy bunnies and kittens.

Excuse me while I laugh.

You want some facts? Right now, you are qualified to flip burgers. That's it. You are looking at minimum wage with *no* hope of advancing. Because no matter how well you flip burgers, or sell clothing at Old Navy, or whatever, there's always going to be someone with letters after his name hired to be your manager.

You read my journal. It's taken me 20 YEARS to find a job that I enjoy, am good at, and can actually pay my bills doing. You know why I only go to BayCon? I can't afford to go to any other cons, and the only reason I can make BayCon is because I'm a guest!

So, you're a slacker. You think that's going to get you anywhere? You think your boss is going to care that FurCon is this weekend, or that you're having personal drama? No. All da Boss cares about is that your ass is in the right place at the right time and doing what you get paid for.

"You've struggled"? OK, the kid gloves are off.

- You've never faced the threat of eviction.

- You've never had to live on $10 worth of food for a week.

- You've never had to sell treasured possessions to keep a roof over your head.

- You've had everything handed to you.

You don't know what struggling is. I'm seriously wondering if you've ever actually worked for something in your life.

Here's a challenge to you: I'm a hiring manager. Why the fuck should I hire you? What do you offer? What's on your resume?

As for driving, have you looked into lessons? Asked the fucking professional driver you know with over 200,000 accident-free miles to show you the ropes? Have you even bothered to get a learner's permit? Downloaded the California Drivers Handbook (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl600.pdf)?

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

Maybe I should come back later with my response. At the moment, you aren't listening to anyone but yourself right now. So go ahead and stick your fingers in your ears and tell yourself nobody understands you, but that isn't going to help the situation. It hasn't helped any of the previous situations--with your girlfriend, with your current boyfriend, with your family--and it is not going to help now.

So. If you're not going to listen to the considered advice of your friends, who are trying to help you, and if you're going to go into every confrontation with your parents with the attitude that they're not going to help you at all, then you're not getting anywhere. You're hamstringing yourself. If you reject everything we've suggested out of hand, what then?

College? You're saying it doesn't work.

College elsewhere? No, it's college that's the problem.

Trade school? No, parents won't let me.

Get a job? Parents won't let me.

Well, fuck that noise, kiddo, because you're running out of options beyond sitting on your ass playing video games all day, and your parents won't consider that kosher, either. So you're going to need to have a talk. Say you're not accomplishing anything in your frame of mind and you need time off. Say you'd like to try trade school. Say you're totally switching majors and want to do economics. I don't have a stake in your future, so I don't care what it is, but do SOMETHING because sitting here attacking everyone on livejournal isn't getting you out of De Anza and into a place you want to be.

If you have no motivation to improve right now then you need to find something you're motivated to do. It's out there. Go grab it.

You need a plan

[capplor.livejournal.com]

Brainstorm something -- even slackers have needs/wants.

At a minimum, you want NOT to be beholden to your parents so you can be treated as an adult. The way to do this is to have a paying job, one that pays well enough to have your OWN living space and takes care of whatever you decide your needs are. That can be difficult without paying some kind of major dues, either a college education or some serious dedication to working up job skills. You need SOMETHING to sell to get your own money.

However, this does not happen by itself. You need to make it happen, especially if you do not want to go the college route.

My mother was also adamant that all her children should be college graduates. This fit in with my own plans & talents, but was not what my younger sister wanted. So she explored alternatives on her own, and THEN presented a complete plan to my parents. Mom was not real thrilled about it, but my sister was very clear on what she wanted to do (chef's school), when & where she would implement it (Culinary Institute of America, Pittsburgh, over about 3 years time), and how she would pay for it (student loans and a year's internship where she would draw a salary, not to mention after a while catering on the side).

"I don't like college; let me stop" will not convince your parents. A clear alternative might.

[chaoswolf]

Parents are beginning to understand now, after I've chatted with them. I'm working on it. It's going to be a bit tricky.

[chaoswolf]

Sorry, Doug. I was pissed. I still am slightly irritated with my life, and I'm starting to make it work I think.

Forgive my ranting. Forgive my stupidity for the time being.

I enjoy ranting at times.

[mdlbear]

First I've heard of it; I didn't mean to give that impression. Didn't I just hear myself advising you to take some courses in Windows applications, or something? If you'd prefer plumbing or construction, go for it! (Your Mom has a retail floristry certificate from Foothill, and was working toward a cert. in hotel and restaurant management when she discovered she couldn't lift heavy pots.)

I do have to warn you that if you're not in school, you're not covered on the family health insurance.

[chaoswolf]

Was thinking more along the lines of trade school for massage therapy like I was initially planning on, hence why I was thinking Brooks College or Bryman.

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

See, yeah. You'll get there. Just don't be dismissive toward your friends here; we're really trying to help you find solutions. If you have to just take a while before responding.

[chaoswolf]

I know....I appreciate it.

[amelia-seyroon.livejournal.com]

.......I don't know. For now, focus on trying to find a job and learning how to drive. I'm sure there are people who can help you with this.

[sdorn.livejournal.com]

I have lots of half-formed thoughts on the substance of the entry (feeling alienated from school), and I'll get to it in a few paragraphs, but there's a second issue that's also important. I have the strangest feeling that you get a significant chunk of stubbornness from your mom. I don't know why I get that impression (I'm lying; I know darned well why), but she's more experienced at it than you are. And what may be more infuriating, she can probably be pretty cheerful while being stubborn.

For better or worse, she's a member of the Conspiracy of Responsible Adults (CORA). So am I. Being a child of one or two CORA members is worse than being in a monastery run by Zen buddhists. The way you leave is not by figuring out the sound of one hand clapping (that's slapping your Zen master's cheek, incidentally, but don't tell him I told you). You leave the CORA umbrella most easily by making your mom laugh within ten seconds of her giving you advice, about the situation of her giving you advice. I know that's cryptic. Sorry; that's the nature of this.

On the substance of hating school: yeah, that's lousy. Generally, that leads to dropping out among college students. And there are plenty of my students who have come back years after dropping out. But that's not guaranteed. If the bargain you've struck with your parents is that you attend college as long as you stay under their roof, consider yourself semi-lucky. School may suck, but many jobs suck much worse.

[drewkitty.livejournal.com]

"You don't have to work with your brain to make money."

I'd hate to hire a welder with no brain. Welds are serious business, especially when they support an overhead load! Double that for mechanics.

Chaos lives in a household surrounded by highly intellectual people. What I am hearing out of this rant is that she wants to learn useful skills with immediate relation to her life.

Driving and automobile repair are both practical and useful skills . . . and there are several people in fandom who could teach either or both.

[animekid.livejournal.com]

Alas two people's situations are never truely the same...
But I can understand and sympathize along a few lines...

Totally agree with you on school...
More so as my parents have long pressed me on those lines dating back even in elementary.
Hell I could have been off in UC Davis had they not pressured me to go De Anza and try for Berkeley again.

One crude way to look at it...
Pay money to school and suffer.
Get money from work and suffer ^_~

But a deeper look however as as one pointed out...
The real world looks heavily at our education =(
Doesn't matter what you know or that you can do such and such =\

Hell I've even had my Mom casually suggest I take up tow trucking.
And just when I thought it was bad enough I was suggested to take up cashiering or bagging boy at the local Albertson's =\

It's hard for me...particularly since I do try to see the actual applicable piece a part of school has in the future job occupation...but it's weird...they're looking at how we go through a system as such x_x;;;

But all I can really offer is hang in there...
I myself am trying and it may not be easy...

But it will pay off...we don't see it now.
Heck we may only see it in worse case scenario if we end up there...
It's just as gridlore said, it can be very dire indeed.

Hang in there...
Though it may not immediately seem so...there are those who are there to help you one way or another in varying amounts and such.

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

I think my own response was motivated in part because I come from a tradition and school where the schooling is partly an end in itself; I mean, my first thought when someone decides to leave academia is "What, you don't want to learn as much as you can?"

And I realize a lot of the time, you can learn a lot just by reading through the local library or doing research on your own, but again, I'm a science major, and I consider hands-on research and guiding voices integral to an education. That means some sort of structured learning environment, whether it be as an apprentice or in an institution.

And I definitely wouldn't be able to concentrate on as many different subjects as I'm doing--over the course of my Reed education, I've taken classes on English lit, linguistics, all sorts of chemistry, solid state physics, Greek and Roman literature/art/history, early modern Europe, and film--without the time to devote myself to my studies in a societally accepted way. It's actually amazing that it is perfectly acceptable for people our age, prime workers, to blow off practical labor for at least four years to sit and write papers on Aristotle. You know? It's a societal investment; society doesn't get our benefit to GNP for a while, but we come out better able to enrich society. Maybe it's work ethic, maybe it's cocktail party conversation, whatever.

I guess my point is that I really hope your "college SUCKS" experience is a localized phenomenon. There are a lot of different colleges and universities out there. If the intellectual posturing and academic bullshit isn't your thing, I really do urge you to try a trade school or to try transferring to a school with a reputation for less of the stuff you hate. You get a very different mix of people at a 4-year than a community college, a university than a state school, a private college than either. I'm not saying that I think you should come to Reed(I think everyone should come to Reed, but in full disclosure it's kicking MY ass academically and I was considered hot shit at my high school.) I think that even if you leave school right now and decide to jump right in the workforce, you should give it a shot sometime later.

On a side note

[capplor.livejournal.com]

So what's keeping you from learning how to drive? Your parents have cars. There are commercially available driving lessons also. Do your parents refuse to give you money for it? Then try to negotiate a deal. Do work for them, or improve your grades to an agreed level, and ask for the lessons as a reward (or present).

Of course, knowing how is not enough. You also need to come to some agreement on shared usage, which probably does not mean being able to take a vehicle any time, anywhere.(Are your parents trying to sidestep that fight? Then you need to prove you can be reasonable.)

Story I've been longing to share (that I just learned):

My parents basically grew up in the "inner city". They had no car, nor need for one until my father (after the birth of his first child) got a much better job in the suburbs. But neither he nor my mother had ever learned to drive. They had enough money between the for ONE of them to take lessons. So mother took driving lessons, while father sat in back and listened. And forever afterwards, he was always telling her how to drive, in less than kindly manners.
(For all their oddities, your parents may be saner than most. Enjoy.)

[jilara.livejournal.com]

Hey, you know what I meant. Earning a living in something like science or technology is "brainwork." Doing things that require working with your hands doesn't mean your mind is in neutral. I know, I come from a family of artists! (And my mom was a frustrated auto mechanic---frustrated because in her generation, they didn't hire women for the trade.) No one in my family (except me, and my sister-in-law doesn't count, since she married in) had a degree, but they did reasonably well. There are a lot of alternatives in this world.
My father was thrown out of U.C.Berkeley, but he became quite successful. He and schooling just had a...difference of opinion.

[jilara.livejournal.com]

I'll be talking to them. Rest assured of that. I was going through a lot of stuff on this in my head, last night.

[jilara.livejournal.com]

A word of advice (well, two). Physical therapy. More demand and more places interested in hiring you. Unemployed massage therapists are a dime a dozen, and you still run into difficulties because of places like the City of San Jose who STILL think it's another form of licensed prostitution. (Don't get me started...) I know this because I've talked to a LOT of people in the profession. If you're serious about this, you need to be diversified, which is why I mention physical therapy, which is a similar but parallel field, with a fairly high demand.

[nolly.livejournal.com]

Nice skill to have, but hard to make a living at.

While potential earnings shouldn't be the only factor in your career choice, you're a fool if you daon't consider it as part of the equation.

Yeah, college can be a pain, in so very many ways.
Yeah, college can be full of drama.

But if you aren't learning anything, either you're taking the wrong classes (wrong subjects, wrong profs, wrong school) or you aren't trying. (My money's on the former, but I could be wrong.)

I can't tell you what the right classes (subjects, professors, schools) are. I don't know you well enough, and I don't know your school or other ones in your area.

I can talk about the path I took, and places I wish I'd made other choices, but what worked and didn't work for me may not tell you anything about what works or doesn't work for you. I fyou want tme to ramble on a bit you you can see what you can glean, say so; I can do it here or email (or IM, if you can catch me online long enough). If you don't want to hear it, that's cool, too.

Re: On a side note

[jilara.livejournal.com]

I think that learning to drive is the most not-optional part. I have friends who aren't allowed to drive because of various physical disabilities, and have seen how it really limits your options in life.

I notice she's already had one "talk to me about learning to drive," and I'm sure willing to coach her on this, too. (In my copious free time, natch.)

[jilara.livejournal.com]

You know, m'dear, a lot of folks care about you, and want to see you succeed in life. We come at things from different experiences and backgrounds, and general styles of dealing with things, but we all care and want you to find a workable solution to life's challenges. It might take bits from all of us, and looking at things from completely new and different viewpoints for a lot of folks.

We should talk sometime soon. Yep, as your fairy gothmother, I take my position seriously. There's a lot of places I've been and experiences I've had that you don't know about, but might be useful in helping you figure out Where to Go From Here.

[figmo.livejournal.com]

This is where I had a distinct advantage over you. I knew from the time I was 17 I wanted to be a broadcast journalist. The hard part was figuring out how to get there.

If nothing is catching your interests, I'd say part of your problem is your meds need to be adjusted. That sounds like depression (BTDT). I know you've been having problems with meds getting balanced.

If you drop out of college, unless you've got a highly specialized skill some employer wants (and sorry, but I don't think you do -- very few folks do), you'll be cursed to a life of low-paying jobs and will never be able to comfortably support yourself. That's reality.

I've seen what a college education and degree can do firsthand, and more than once. When I was born my parents and I had to live with Dad's parents because my folks couldn't afford a place of their own. Dad was in college; Mom was a high school grad who barely graduated. When Dad got his DDS degree he and Mom were able to buy a house within a year. My brother and I both got to go to private schools. Mom stopped working because we no longer needed her near-minimum-wage income.

With a college education I was able to break into high tech because I had a quirky set of specialized skills some employers wanted. I didn't have a degree for many years, though, and that kept me from many jobs. Once I had my BA, all of a sudden companies that wouldn't even look at me were begging me to interview. My annual income shot up $10k in one year. I'd be lying through my teeth if I told you I used anything I learned at San Jose State at work, but just having that stupid degree made life soooo much easier.

There's a lot of bullsh*t in college. I hated going to school most of the time. OTOH, I knew exactly why I was going. My goals were to make more money, get more money-making opportunities, and possibly even get into broadcast journalism as a career. I've even done all of that.

Having a degree even in basket-weaving opens more doors for you than not having one at all. I'm not saying you shouldn't work; if anything, I found I did better in my classes when I had a job outside of work. When school pissed me off I could vent about it at work. When work pissed me off I could vent about it at school. When family pissed me off I could vent about them at both places. The tough part, though, is your chances of getting a good job without either a highly specialized skill or talent or a degree of some kind are slim, especially in this economy.

It occurs to me

[capplor.livejournal.com]

That our good friend Dr. James would be the person to discuss massage therapy as a way to earn a living. Not necessarilly too soon, but you know you'd get the straight story.