Legal question

[chaoswolf]

OK. I know I've got some legalese geeks on here somewhere, so I'm asking for your advice.

Here's my question. My girlfriend (herafter referred to as "Lo") is 18. Her mother has never met me, and believes that I am a bad influence and forced Lo into a bisexual relationship. Now, under the viligant eyes of her mom, Lo is now grounded for 6 months. Lo's perfectly capable of making her own decisions and should be able to do whatever she wishes. Would this be considered domestic voilence? Is there a way to possibly get around this barrier and somehow enable her to move in with my family?

I love Pantherchan immensly. You who have seen the pic can see why. You can guess how sexually active I was before the shit hit the fan. You know I'd go through whatever it takes. So please, pray for me. Pray for her freedom. Pray that the 6 months of torment end swiftly.

Comments

You're not going to like my answer.

[kshandra]

IANAL. But I have a question: How much, if anything, is Lo contributing to the household financially? If she's paying her own way (even if it's only a token amount previously agreed upon by her and her parents), then she should be entitled to make her own decisions about where she goes and when and for how long. If her parents are still giving her a free ride when it comes to food and shelter, then it is perfectly reasonable for them to establish guidelines and boundaries. It may not be "fair" in your eyes or hers, but being an adult means more than just a date on the calendar, sweetie.

And FFS, go buy a vibrator already. Because, to be blunt, the fact that you never seem to mention how much you love her without immediately starting to talk about the sex makes it look to an outsider that the sex is the only thing this relationship is based on.

Re: You're not going to like my answer.

[chaoswolf]

She isn't contributing anything because she's in school. Jobs are hard to come by.

And as for the 2nd answer: I already have toys, and use them. I do not recall if I mentioned how much I love her in any of my other posts, but I would seriously do anything, take whatever measures it takes to get her out of that house. Sex isn't the only thing this is based on, but it is a major portion of our relationship.

[carol-kitty.livejournal.com]

If her parents are paying for most of her expenses such as car insurance, gas, college, room and board they can establish boundries for her. I know it sucks but she is living under their roof and such. If she is paying a nominal fee for rent then she should be allowed her freedom. Most cases she is probably being supported. It sucks I know. At the very least, you can see her at school right? That is something. Not much but at least you have contact much more than other gilrs. If she did move in with your family, you have to consider things such as insurance (car, medical and dental), tuition, food, rent etc. It gets expensive and without a degree doubly so. Even if you guys can stick it out for her to finish it school it might prove to be better in the long run. Use your time wisely with her...make each moment count. *hugs*

[figmo.livejournal.com]

I knew something like this was going to happen sooner or later. Welcome to the wonderful world of prejudice.

I've seen you and Lo. Lo soooo does not look "forced" or "coerced" on your end. Her mother, OTOH, is obviously domineering and not accepting of her daughter. You are lucky because you can be yourself around your parents. Lots of us, including Lo, don't have that luxury.

Legally Lo can move in on you, but if her mother is anything like my father was, watch the tuition and possibly the car evaporate into thin air if she does. Possessive parents tend to use money and support as a way of controlling their adult offspring. My father would yank the college money if I did something that didn't meet his approval. I used up my savings that way and spent a couple of summers working 70 to 90 hours a week just to avoid moving back in with my folks.

If Lo wants to move in with you she'd better be prepared to hold down a job to pay for her tuition and other expenses.

Re: You're not going to like my answer.

[kshandra]

She isn't contributing anything because she's in school. Jobs are hard to come by.

It might be in her best interest to negotiate (obviously not now, as it's not going to fly well in an already negative situation) an agreement where going to school is considered her job and her contribution to the household, and that when she leaves (be that when she gets her degree, or if she should drop out before then, or whatever) she'll get a paying job and contribute to the household that way. Something she can take to her parents that says she's willing to take on the responsibilities of being an adult, and not just expecting the benefits of having turned 18.

Sex isn't the only thing this is based on, but it is a major portion of our relationship.

Then take this time as an opportunity to examine the parts of the relationship that aren't physical in nature, and figure out what you can each do to enhance those other aspects. Because even if this is your One True Love and you're together for the rest of your lives, there will come a time where sex is the last thing on either of your minds...and there needs to be substance to the rest of the relationship if it's going to survive.

[dopple.livejournal.com]

Much as I'm rooting for you...this is not domestic violence, psychological warfare, or anything of the kind. It's just a parent being unhappy with a life choice their child made and is dealing with it in their own way. I got a similar reaction from my own when I started going to Bondage A Go Go...and I was 24.

Well, they didn't ground me but I was kinda shunned.

Re: You're not going to like my answer.

[dopple.livejournal.com]

come a time where sex is the last thing on either of your minds

Eeeeyeeeew!

^{I'm all for more to life than sex and love is the answer...but that's just a wonky concept}

Re: You're not going to like my answer.

[kshandra]

I'm all for more to life than sex and love is the answer...but that's just a wonky concept

Then it's really gonna break your brain when I tell you that I haven't had sex with gridlore in five years. And that I don't miss it.

Re: You're not going to like my answer.

[dopple.livejournal.com]

Re: You're not going to like my answer.

[jilara.livejournal.com]

That's in there with people looking confused when I say that while I'm in poly relationships, currently I'm mostly non-practicing. People don't always get that you can be poly and not having sex...

[sdorn.livejournal.com]

The comments here are generally on target, though it's more life advice than legal stuff. As an adult, Lo can make her own choices and move out, but her parents are not obligated to support her in any way.

We don't get to pick our parents. Every time you think about Lo's situation, give your parents a hug, or at least say something nice, if you think they've treated you better.

Re: You're not going to like my answer.

[kshandra]

Bingo. If I had a nickel for every time someone assumed dafydd was my primary because he was the one I was sleeping with....

[jilara.livejournal.com]

It doesn't even count for "false imprisonment" as they are obviously letting her live other aspects of her life, such as going to school.

But money is possibly THE most powerful way of controling those who are dependant. There are abused women who stay with men because they have NO money and hence think they have no other options. Eating and a roof over your head is important to most of us, and to some it is more important than sex, than comfort, than lack of physical pain.

My father was a master of control through finances (not to mention financial irresponsibility, but that's not part of this discussion) and I learned very early to turn down any financial connection, because it came with anchor chains attached. But that sort of thing is still a choice.

If you are motivated enough, you're willing to live under a bridge and scrounge out of dumpsters, rather than toe the line. Once I was finally away from my father and the honor-pledge I had made my mother to take care of him after she was dead, I swore I would live on the street, rather than ever live with my father or be dependant on him again. But my situation was rather more serious than your lady-friend's.

Eventually, your lady is going to have to make a choice of lifestyle vs living arrangement, but she's not motivated enough at this point, or she wouldn't acquiesce so easily. Yeah, it sucks, but it's still a choice, a trade-off she is making.

I don't think you'll like my answer either.

[karl-lembke.livejournal.com]

My girlfriend (herafter referred to as "Lo") is 18.

That's the main point. She is, indeed 18. She is, indeed, able to do what she wishes. Apparently, Lo manages to get to school, so she's not chained to her bed. At least not all the time. She could leave if she wanted to.

The fact is, she doesn't want to – badly enough.

She's obviously weighed her choices, and decided she prefers to pay the cost of living where she is over paying the cost of moving out.

In this case, the "rent" she pays includes a restriction on who she can see socially. As long as her parents are her "landlords", they have the right to set the "rent" at whatever level they want, including placing restrictions on her behavior, as long as they don't violate any laws.

You could certainly offer her an alternative. You could let her know there's a place in your home for her. (Better make sure there is.) But there are other considerations besides where she sleeps at night. If she leaves home, do her parents quit paying for school? Does she have a car? Does she own it? There are lots of things to consider.

It might be best if the two of you keep a low profile until Lo is out of school and pulling down enough money to be independent of her parents.

Re: I don't think you'll like my answer either.

[mdlbear]

"It might be best if the two of you keep a low profile until Lo is out of school and pulling down enough money to be independent of her parents."

Good point. Right now she's getting school, probably health care, and some or all of the car expenses paid for. Room and board are comparatively minor.

Re: You're not going to like my answer.

[chaoswolf]

Ray, either grow up or fuck off. Seriously. I hate banning people from my LJ. But I will if I have to.

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

Been basically saying this on AIM, but I figure I'll write it here in closer to essay format to get it on the record.

There are constructive things that you will be able to do, to either work on Lo's physical situation(money, leverage), Lo's parents' mental situation(which will have to involve her talking to them, of course), and your romantic situation(spending all the time you can together without pissing off Lo's parents). But right now is not the best time to put together those plans, and it's not the time to start asking about legal advice, or making desperate moves.

Right now is the time to get your anger out of the way. It's time to vent. Because right now you're not thinking rationally, and you're only looking at six months as 'forever' and not 'surmountable obstacle.' And it is surmountable--people used to get on boats and do grand tours of Europe away from their loved ones, and they survived. In this day and age we don't do that, so the prospect of being away from someone for six months sucks.

Oh, believe me, I know how much it must SUCK right now.

So get all your angry venting out of the way right now--perhaps not on LJ every day, because then you'll have to look back on it when you've sobered up--but vent! ANGER! GRR! CHAOS SMASH! I don't know how you tend to deal with your bad moods, but curl up or hit pillows or listen to angry music(my personal favorite) or draw things with lots of black ink or write angry poetry... whatever. Just try and take it out on inanimate objects instead of family and friends.

When the anger's burned itself out for a while and you can think straight again, that is the time to start planning things. Start asking for advice then about getting Lo a job and apartment and away from her parents, or fixing her mother with orbital brain lasers, or whatever your eventual plan happens to be. But trying to come up with solutions when you're in this state will just feel hopeless or desperate and that's not good, because there are things you can do to help the situation and make the six months go by faster, or make the six months an actual shorter time period.

We solicitous advice-givers sometimes forget that anger is a healthy and natural reaction and something that deserves attention. Taking the long view is good, but my advice right now is to take the short view for a while and work it out of your system. I think you'll feel better for doing it and the long view can come into focus better.

[drewkitty.livejournal.com]

>> If you are motivated enough, you're willing to live under a bridge and scrounge out of dumpsters, rather than toe the line.

Hear, hear.

[drewkitty.livejournal.com]

>> Would this be considered domestic violence?

No.

It could escalate into such a situation, I suppose. "Grounding" in this case is rules-setting by a parent. Lo could choose to break those rules -- and Lo's mom could choose to ask Lo to pay rent, or not live there any more. The resulting conflicts.

Now, locking Lo out of the house in her underwear (which happened to a friend of mine, BTW) would be grounds for involving the police, if only to get her stuff back. But she could come home one day to find all of her stuff on the porch with a note saying "We changed the locks. Go away."

I would caution you regarding her mom's belief that you forced Lo to do anything sexual. If this were true, she might approach law enforcement and report that you sexually assaulted Lo. This would be awkward and obnoxious, to put it mildly. (Remember that her goal is to "Save Her Daughter" so otherwise outlandish acts might seem perfectly reasonable to her.)

As for the sex v. relationship argument raging elsewhere in the comment field, a large chunk of this is None Of Our Business . . . but be aware that sexual desire can cloud mature judgment. It's called being an adult, and sometimes it sucks.

Burned bridges cannot be recrossed until they are rebuilt, which can be very difficult. So I can see Lo's desire not to cut off that emotional and financial support.

Good luck with a difficult situation.

Re: You're not going to like my answer.

[dopple.livejournal.com]

I am how I am, if banning me works for you that is your choice. Though, as I think you may've noticed, this comment was more an afterthought than anything else.

[kaysho.livejournal.com]

If her Mom owns the house, she can pretty much set whatever rules she wants for people to live there, short of requiring people living in the house to break the law. But if Mom is collecting money as rent from her daughter, then her daughter does acquire certain rights as a tenant, and one of those is the right to enter and leave the rented premises. Mom's ability to "ground" her daughter ended when her daughter reached legal adulthood, if by grounding you mean refusing her permission to leave the house at all.

So in short: if Mom is not collecting any rent from her daughter, she may set house rules that forbid her daughter to see you, but may not forbid her to leave the house altogether (that would be kidnapping!). She may, however, establish a rule that if her daughter ever leaves the house, she is not welcome to return.

If Mom is collecting any rent from her daughter, then her daughter absolutely has the right to come and go from the house as she pleases as long as she continues to pay the rent on time.